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This page will not be posted very long but I would like to hear input by other VPsters.


This is a collection of emails sent and received by me between myself and someone in VP who, in my opinion, has copied the links from my site to use as their own. This is by no means the first time it has happened since I began my page almost 4 years ago but most, when contacted, see where I'm coming from and have made amends to my satisfaction. As most of you know, I work very hard keeping my links up to date spending several hours each week reading email, visiting each site submitted, adding them to the page if they meet my guidelines and then formatting the HTML to show the new links. ( ...not to even mention the hours I spend making sure my links are still good links and not ones that have vanished into cyberspace...OK so I mentioned it...LOL ) I've done this for almost 4 years and I'm proud of my site's place in VP. I know I can't stop those that are determined to use my work as their own but I can sure COMPLAIN and set the record straight regarding it. Take the time to read this, I think you will get a chuckle out of it, I know I did...more than a few. ;-)

I've removed the email address & ICQ number of the person involved and also the addresses of the two people I forwarded copies to, out of respect for their privacy. Please feel free to send me your thoughts and/or comments on the subject to cowtowning@aol.com. Please leave the Subject: "Should Ing be upset?" intact so I can find them easily among all the email I receive daily. I will post some, if not all, of them on this page (Pro and Con). If you prefer to remain anonymous please state so in the email and I will respect your wishes. Thanks for your time and concern, I think it's about time that we all stand up for what we believe.

The email below is in the exact order that it was received and sent by me. Along with the email addresses, I've also removed most of the "quoted from previous email" text to make it easier to follow. Everything else is EXACTLY the way it was seen by me and the other 3 people involved. The emails TO: Cowtowning@aol.com are in red and the ones from me TO: addy@removed are in blue. The "quoted from previous email" text is in green. The screenshots mentioned are further down the page.

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Subj: my site
Date: 08/15/2000 1:23:14 AM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

please add a link to my site on yours...
www.geocities.com/o0starz0o/
ty starz

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Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 1:04:00 PM Central Daylight Time
To: addy@removed

In a message dated 08/15/2000 1:23:14 AM Central Daylight Time, addy@removed writes:

<< please add a link to my site on yours...
 www.geocities.com/o0starz0o/
 ty starz

  >>
 Hello...

 I was checking your URL again for consideration of a link. The first couple of times I checked the site was down but was up today. I was shocked to see that you have apparantly taken the time to COPY all the links from MY site to use on your site. I dont know how long you have been on the net or on VP but to most people that isn't acceptable. I have been doing my links site for VP for almost 4 years and spend many hours each week doing so. I know they came straight off my site because of the way they are alphabetized and the names that are used for the links. I'd appreciate it very much if you would reconsider using them like that. Link to my site if you would like but dont use my links that Ive spent thousands of hours compiling as if they were your own. ;-(

Let me know what you decide and I will once again consider your site for a link on mine. Thanks

Ing

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Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 7:37:48 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

I have been working on the page for a years...I have not put it up because I
was still in the making..I went from all kinds of (hosting sites) searching
for VP sites and no I did pot copy them from your site. Only thing I copied
was your link to your page. I swear I have been going through vp asking
people if they no any links searching in search engines talking to people
throughout ICQ and yahoo... places like that. I have never not one link off
your page. So you can please stop accusing me. I only take stuff with
permission. I have never stole any resources off of any page with out
permission. I do not steal or lie. thank you very much
I' sorry you think that way
but I know that I have not taken any link off of your page!!!!
                 o0staz0o


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[ 1 minute later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 7:38:50 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

i also goto web ring homepages list and copy the links from there and go to
other link pages..so pleas stop accusing me!!!

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[ 6 minutes later ]

Subj: ...
Date: 08/17/2000 7:44:59 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

I work day and night on that link pages...its not my fault that we may have the same links. (they are still from vp) I did not take any from your page as i have told you before i have gone to may place (not yours) to get links. It may have taken you 4 years but it took me a year. I am a fast typer and i find the spare time during summer break from school. Also If i give my self a gola such as MAKING A LINK PAGE it is not my fault if i acutally finsh it and have more links than you.. I finish what i say i'm going to do.

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[ 23 minutes later ]

Subj: take it off?
Date: 08/17/2000 8:07:16 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

i will refuse to take my link page and delet it for i have put the hard work in for a year and still going to make that link so the answer is no I WILL NOT take my link page off!!! (that is my final answer)

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Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 8:12:05 PM Central Daylight Time
To: addy@removed
BCC: addy@removed, addy@removed

You may say and think what you wish ...all I'm asking is for you not to use my links as your own. I wonder how my very first link (for example) that is Avatars by Byte happens to be your first too???? Byte's site is listed first on mine because he is a very close personal real-life friend, surely not alphabetical ....and for another example the 3 listings you have for Visionary's sites (another close personal friend) are the listings I gave for his ONE site for the express purpose, with his cooperation, of us being able to track when people used my links as their own. This has been done many times in the past 4 years with some even going so far as to using my exact HTML and putting their own title on it instead of mine. As I said, do and think what you wish just dont expect those in the know to approve.

Ing

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[ 9 minutes after I sent the one above ...after Avatars by Byte link had been removed ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 8:21:49 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

It is not hte first one if that link is not even on my page the first on on
my page is: A-1 Avatar Architechs, you read wrong and assume wronge
[ see my screenshot of page in question below ]

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[ 2 minutes later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 8:23:49 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

again i will tell you, they ARE NOT YOUR LINKS I REPEAT THEY ARE NOT YOUR
LINKS THEY ARE NOT YOUR LINKS!!!!!

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[ 1 minute later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 8:24:46 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

plus it would have taken me forever to get your links, i asked paitners
throught vp if they know any links that is how i get links so LEAVE ME
ALONE ( and i do not think i know!!!)

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[ 4 minutes later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 8:28:55 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

also please stop emailing me i do not have the time...i am a web graphix
desiner and i am busy so if you have any questions ICQ ME- XXXXXXXX i will
nto reply to anymore e-mails accusing me!!!!! I have many link that you
don't have and you have many links that i don't have

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Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 9:17:28 PM Central Daylight Time
To: addy@removed
BCC: addy@removed, addy@removed

In a message dated 08/17/2000 8:23:49 PM Central Daylight Time, addy@removed writes:

<< Subj: Re: my site
 Date: 08/17/2000 8:23:49 PM Central Daylight Time
 From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
 To: Cowtowning@aol.com
 
 again i will tell you, they ARE NOT YOUR LINKS I REPEAT THEY ARE NOT YOUR
 LINKS THEY ARE NOT YOUR LINKS!!!!! >>

This is so funny it's unbelievable...LOL I've emailed you only once on my own and this is only my second and LAST 'responce' to your subsequent replies. In this one I will tell you that you are absolutely not being truthful and I can prove it with the screenshots I have of my browser windows showing your address in the location bar and Avatars by Byte being your first listing. Oh and I also have the screenshot showing the 3 Visionary's links to prove that they too were there just like Byte's "WAS" in case you see fit to remove them also. Funny huh? LOL

Keep on telling yourself and soon enough even you will begin to believe.

Ing
ps...if you would like a copy of the screenshots I can provide them to you as I have already sent them out to other interested parties. And let's see, this is my 3rd email to you EVER and I've received 8 from you in the last 30 or 45 minutes so maybe it's you that needs to "LEAVE ME ALONE"

[ see screenshots below ]

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[ took a while to get a reply to my last email...1 hour and 42 minutes ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 10:59:38 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

i love to see how fake they are

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[ same Time-Stamp as the one above ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/17/2000 10:59:38 PM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

oh yes please email them asap

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Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/18/2000 12:28:59 AM Central Daylight Time
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:28:59 EDT
To: addy@removed
BCC: addy@removed

In a message dated 08/17/2000 10:59:38 PM Central Daylight Time, addy@removed writes:

<< oh yes please email them asap >>

The pictures are posted at http://members.tripod.com/Ing2/o0starz0o.htm including the "unalterable" Netscape source codes of both pages in question...check them out if you so wish.
[ screenshots below ]

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[ these next 3 were waiting on me when I checked email this morning ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/18/2000 1:50:31 AM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

oh yeah,,your real mature

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[ 8 minutes later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/18/2000 1:58:48 AM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

didn;'t you know BEST IF VIEWED WITH IE 5.0 netscape doesn't put sites
together properly pluse those links are not even on my page so you fixed
those, oh and don't even say your mature cause your not, you mite as well
start playting the cutie games...

[ Funny, I never knew that Netscape would 'add' erroneous links to a page that is BEST IF VIEWED WITH IE 5.0 ...LOL ]

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[ 3 minutes later ]

Subj: Re: my site
Date: 08/18/2000 2:01:13 AM Central Daylight Time
From: addy@removed (o0starz0o)
To: Cowtowning@aol.com

why don' you just give it up, i'm not gonna give in to you...and your not
gonna give into me, LINKS ARE LINKS GET HTAT i don't see your name written
on the web ring links page where i got them so, JUST STOP BEING IMATURE and
GROW UP!!!

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SCREENSHOTS of the 2 Pages and their source codes in Netscape, which as we all know is unalterable, unlike the source code viewed in IE, are below. If anyone should care to compare the links on the site in question with the links on my site please take note of the links that are not on my site but on the other. Be sure to click on the said link as most of the ones I checked today were links I had removed from my site prior to my update of yesterday afternoon (Thurday 8/17/00). I had taken several days to visit all 1000+ paintshops on my site and came up with 157 bad links which were subsequently removed by me this week and the updated page uploaded yesterday afternoon. Of all the links I clicked on today (Friday 8/18/00) that are not on my site now, all but one came up to a "Not Found" or "Shop Closed" site. Those are the links that had been removed by me this past week for those reasons.

You will see the EXACT same names for all the links, the same wierd alphabetical way I use with names hard to put in order (with numbers and such), amazing similarity of the way the links to the different link pages are made, even see target="_top" in the HTML that I use since my page is in frames although the pages in question are not in frames.

B4 removal of Byte's

B4 removal of Byte's

B4 removal of one of Visionary's links and B4 the use of a 'table'


[ make note of how Visionary's links all point to the same URL except for one that doesn't use "www." and compare both link sites now ]

B4 removal of one of Visionary's links and B4 the use of a 'table'

Please return to Top of Page and send me your comments, Pro or Con. I'm very interested in your opinion. Thanks, Ing.


VPsters have seen this site since 8/19/00 (12:05 AM)